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Traveller-digest    Thursday, November 11 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1336<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Read all about it ! Sixth Frontier War! It's Official! (... <BR>
Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
Re: Pacifist groups in the 3I<BR>
Re: Anti-violence groups in 3I<BR>
Re: Pacifist groups in the 3I<BR>
Trip to DC area<BR>
Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
Re: Other lists (was: Re: Vilani Dictionary)<BR>
Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
Re: Pacifist groups in the 3I<BR>
Recovering Grav vehicles<BR>
Re: Anti-violence groups in 3I<BR>
2300AD?<BR>
RE: Starlost<BR>
How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
Re: Cultures<BR>
RE: elfman@pacificnet.net<BR>
Re: Anti-violence groups in 3I<BR>
Re: Cultures<BR>
re: Sixth Frontier War!<BR>
Re: Evolution (was ...and the drifting generation ship)<BR>
Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
Re: (OT) IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 13:01:25 +0000<BR>
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at><BR>
Subject: Re: Read all about it ! Sixth Frontier War! It's Official! (... <BR>
<BR>
> >> >On the other hand, it gives a great excuse to play "Rambo" and try for<BR>
> >> >a rescue mission.<BR>
<BR>
SNIP<BR>
> >As far as mounting a rescue mission goes, that would depend on at least<BR>
> >these two factors:<BR>
<BR>
> >1.  Where are the PWs being held?<BR>
> >2.  How many PWs are being held there?<BR>
<BR>
SNIP<BR>
<BR>
> >I would expect that no rescue effort short of<BR>
> >all-out invasion would be able to retrieve more than a handful of these<BR>
> >PWs.  IMHO, it would be highly improbable that a successful rescue<BR>
> >mission could be mounted on any site deeper than 5-6 parsecs inside<BR>
> >Zhodani space.<BR>
<BR>
True. However, if you are after an adventure for the PCs, it does not <BR>
need to be a rescue mission. It would be more interesting (IMHO) to <BR>
send the PCs to answer the two questions above, looking for POWs, <BR>
which are *suspected* to be held at 5-8 parsecs from the boundary. Of <BR>
course the POWs were moved further inside the consulate, and by the <BR>
time the PCs discover them, there are indeed 500 of them, being <BR>
thoroughly reeducated (benevolently or not, your take on Zhodani), at <BR>
around 20 parsecs deep in the consulate... and indeed the PCs must <BR>
recognize that rescuing them is impossible. I wonder how will PCs <BR>
react.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmmm..... have already 5 or 6 options been discussed? Looks to me <BR>
the list has developed one old-styled adventure nugget (the 77th <BR>
Patron?) ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Carlos Alos-Ferrer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:14:25 +0000<BR>
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
"Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Current recovery vehicles are also designed to do repairs in the field <BR>
>(changing engines, gun barrels, etc.). That is, an ARV is supposed to fix a <BR>
>vehicle in the field if it can, tow it back to a repair base if it can't. A <BR>
>vehicle designed solely to lift a disabled vehicle (and not repair it) is <BR>
>not very cost effective, unless you have only a few issued per army and use <BR>
>normal ARVs for the bulk of recovery/repair work.<BR>
<BR>
The economics might change if your recovery vehicle can load up in five<BR>
minutes and then head home at 100+kph.<BR>
Phil Kitching<BR>
- --<BR>
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/<BR>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.<BR>
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 04:20:01 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Pacifist groups in the 3I<BR>
<BR>
- --- Carlos Alos-Ferrer <carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > >Does anyone have any firm anti-violence groups active in their <BR>
> > >Traveller universe? What do they do? How does the Imperium <BR>
> > >see them?<BR>
> <BR>
> During an old FTF adventure, I introduced a pacifist movement <BR>
> following (partly) in spirit Yukio Mishima's ideas, vaguely linked <BR>
> to buddist religion. An Army without more weapons that those used for<BR>
> ritual suicide, willing to die but not to kill, with the firm belief <BR>
> that nobody has the right to take one life, except the own. They were<BR>
> called "Life Fighters" or "Mishimans."<BR>
<BR>
That certainly is an interesting twist. I will have to think about <BR>
the concept of a pacifist willing to kill themselves. A combination <BR>
of the Samuri (sp?) right/obligation and more standard non-violence. <BR>
It certainly is original. Hats off on that one.<BR>
 <BR>
> They were sort of a peaceful resistance against the <BR>
> growing corporate power. Their ritual, spectacular suicides as <BR>
> protest for specific corporate acts (like causing planetary wars to <BR>
> control mineral resources) received a disproportionate media coverage<BR>
> and caused negative demand reactions among the consumers, eventually <BR>
> forcing the corporations to pay attention to the movement.<BR>
<BR>
What sort of methods for their ritual suicide did they use? The <BR>
old standby of some kind of bladed weapon or something more modern? <BR>
Or setting themselves on fire? Or something totally different?<BR>
<BR>
Terry<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 04:25:45 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-violence groups in 3I<BR>
<BR>
- --- Tommy Grav <tommy.grav@astro.uio.no> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Does anyone have any firm anti-violence groups active in their <BR>
> >Traveller universe? What d they do? How does the Imperium <BR>
> >see them?<BR>
> <BR>
> Scenario: The group has just been in their first fire-fight in an<BR>
> urban area, possibly destroing some building, cars and such. A <BR>
> local interstellar anti-violence group starts stalking the group <BR>
> while in the local main making demonstrations outside their <BR>
> hotel, getting in the way of their job, and making their lives <BR>
> high media profile (not in a good way :-)<BR>
<BR>
Now that certainly has some possibilites...<BR>
<BR>
Even if they had the purest of motives, an counter attack by the bad <BR>
guys would be blamed on them. Strongly. <g><BR>
<BR>
Even more interesting would be the bad guys using the harrasment <BR>
as cover for their attack. <BR>
<BR>
Terry<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 13:30:28 +0100<BR>
From: Jens Rydholm <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Pacifist groups in the 3I<BR>
<BR>
Carlos Alos-Ferrer wrote:<BR>
> In my 3I (which I do not use much since I moved the area of play<BR>
> Beyond The Extents), Delphi sector was heavily colonized by terrans<BR>
> of asian origin. This gave a special twist to the later high<BR>
> corporate influence in Margaret's Stronghold during the Rebellion.<BR>
> <BR>
> During an old FTF adventure, I introduced a pacifist movement<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
I haven't done anything that extreme, but I've had local peace activists<BR>
spraypaint "MURDERER" and other, more obscene slogans on the turrets of<BR>
the PCs ships while it was in the starport bay (they broke in). It<BR>
scared the players more than I intended, and they decided to hire a<BR>
bodyguard during the rest of their stay. Stupid as I am, I didn't spin<BR>
off from their paranoia, but some of you might want to.<BR>
<BR>
The ideas I got later was to let the bodyguard ask them questions like<BR>
"have you ever killed someone" and things like that. It might also be<BR>
fun to let someone follow the PCs around town. They can't exactly blast<BR>
away at their "opponents" in this case...<BR>
<BR>
Wouldn't that be a fun scenario?<BR>
<BR>
/Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:39:54 -0500<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Trip to DC area<BR>
<BR>
I'll be up in Gaithersburg, MD, for the long weekend (courtesy of Veteran's<BR>
Day). If any of the TMLers around DC are of a mind to get together, drop me<BR>
a note offline.<BR>
<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
<BR>
Chris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:52:28 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Robert Conley <estar@toolcity.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >From: Robert Conley <estar@toolcity.net><BR>
> >Subject: Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Why do we need a separate vechile. Why can't we have a control module, and<BR>
> >a series of standard grav lift modules of which are self powered.<BR>
> >that you attach to the disabled vechile. The whole thing is controlled by<BR>
> <BR>
>   Is it just me, or isn't the issue of attaching these pods going to be<BR>
> non-trivial, and potentially pretty damned exciting with all the power<BR>
> cables running to the control module/crew cabin?<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
No the modules are self-powered and the control is wireless. The<BR>
performance wouldn't be as good as direct fiber optics but we are only<BR>
talking about limping back to a repair center.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 12:56:49 +0000<BR>
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>
Subject: Re: Other lists (was: Re: Vilani Dictionary)<BR>
<BR>
Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:<BR>
>What other Traveller lists are there, and how do I subscribe to them?<BR>
<BR>
There's also:<BR>
<BR>
FIWG - the Fourth Imperium Working Guild looking at a future setting for<BR>
Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
Subscribe: FIWG-subscribe@onelist.com<BR>
<BR>
HTH<BR>
<BR>
tc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 08:00:50 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Robert Conley <estar@toolcity.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
In addition the grav lift modules can be use to lift the vechile in situ<BR>
for on site repairs. I figure with grav lift modules instead of an entire<BR>
vechiles a repair unit can pack more lift capability than the number of<BR>
vechiles it has. I see a repair unit with a lot of cargo carriers and a<BR>
few repair vans for in-site repair. When you have a bunch of disable<BR>
vechiles you perform triage and use the lift modules to send the one that<BR>
need to be repaired later back to the rear areas, mark the ones that are<BR>
beyond any repair for the salvage teams, and the repair any that can be on<BR>
site. <BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 11 Nov 1999, Phil Kitching wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> "Brandon Cope" <copeab@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Current recovery vehicles are also designed to do repairs in the field <BR>
> >(changing engines, gun barrels, etc.). That is, an ARV is supposed to fix a <BR>
> >vehicle in the field if it can, tow it back to a repair base if it can't. A <BR>
> >vehicle designed solely to lift a disabled vehicle (and not repair it) is <BR>
> >not very cost effective, unless you have only a few issued per army and use <BR>
> >normal ARVs for the bulk of recovery/repair work.<BR>
> <BR>
> The economics might change if your recovery vehicle can load up in five<BR>
> minutes and then head home at 100+kph.<BR>
> Phil Kitching<BR>
> --<BR>
>   http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/<BR>
>   Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.<BR>
>  "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 14:08:47 +0000<BR>
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at><BR>
Subject: Re: Pacifist groups in the 3I<BR>
<BR>
> > > >Does anyone have any firm anti-violence groups active in their <BR>
> > > >Traveller universe? What do they do? How does the Imperium <BR>
> > > >see them?<BR>
 <BR>
> > During an old FTF adventure, I introduced a pacifist movement <BR>
> > following (partly) in spirit Yukio Mishima's ideas, vaguely linked <BR>
> > to buddist religion. An Army without more weapons that those used for<BR>
> > ritual suicide, willing to die but not to kill, with the firm belief <BR>
> > that nobody has the right to take one life, except the own. They were<BR>
> > called "Life Fighters" or "Mishimans."<BR>
 <BR>
> That certainly is an interesting twist. I will have to think about <BR>
> the concept of a pacifist willing to kill themselves. A combination <BR>
> of the Samuri (sp?) right/obligation and more standard non-violence. <BR>
> It certainly is original. Hats off on that one.<BR>
<BR>
It is not mine. Yukio Mishima had that "Army" in modern-times Japan, <BR>
and he did die by commiting ritual suicide (set the record for depth <BR>
and width in the cuts, IIRC). They were not exactly pacifists as we <BR>
westerners understand the concept, but there is where I took the idea <BR>
from.<BR>
<BR>
> > They were sort of a peaceful resistance against the <BR>
> > growing corporate power. Their ritual, spectacular suicides as <BR>
> > protest for specific corporate acts (like causing planetary wars to <BR>
> > control mineral resources) received a disproportionate media coverage<BR>
> > and caused negative demand reactions among the consumers, eventually <BR>
> > forcing the corporations to pay attention to the movement.<BR>
 <BR>
> What sort of methods for their ritual suicide did they use? The <BR>
> old standby of some kind of bladed weapon or something more modern? <BR>
> Or setting themselves on fire? Or something totally different?<BR>
<BR>
To be honest, in the first adventure I was thinking quick and had <BR>
some of them (asian descent) use the traditional methods <BR>
(hara-kiri/seppuku), complete with a *robotic* assistant programmed <BR>
by themselves as a credible commitment. Later, I portrayed them as <BR>
using a variety of suicide methods related to the issue they were <BR>
protesting for, and gaining in spectacularity to captivate the <BR>
mass-media attention. The only requirement is that it must be the <BR>
individual's will and personal action what causes death, overcoming <BR>
the pain of the process, and not some natural force (there is a huge <BR>
difference between an "actice" suicide as seppuku and a "passive" <BR>
suicide as jumping from a building - the jump does not kill you, but <BR>
the fall)<BR>
<BR>
For example, when the Geoneecide started, most of the initial victims <BR>
(IMTU) died when Margaret's fleet destroyed Geonee-full starships <BR>
which were fleeing the ravaged Massilia. Marquis Tanzer (?), the <BR>
leading force behind the Geoneecide, stated that because the <BR>
Geonee's internals organs were so packed, it was difficult to <BR>
capture them alive, which explained the number of deaths.<BR>
<BR>
One "Mishiman" killed himself in presence of Margaret by  using two <BR>
robotic arms which augmented the strength of his own arms to compress <BR>
the lower part of his body, "packing his internal organs to Geonee <BR>
density." Another one killed stole a naval shuttle and used a <BR>
remote-controlled cargo loader to have it slowly crush himself - he <BR>
was pushing a lever to that purpose and could have stopped any <BR>
second, but didn't.<BR>
<BR>
Oh, btw, the PCs thought the Mishimans were all crazy, but the events <BR>
*did* catch their attention. Then I throwed a Geonee "Mishiman" in as <BR>
NPC...<BR>
<BR>
Carlos Alos-Ferrer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 20:09:33 -0800<BR>
From: Rob Dean <rsdean@erols.com><BR>
Subject: Recovering Grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
For those of you who are long time list members, yes, I'm still alive. (-:<BR>
<BR>
When I did a series of TL10 military grav vehicles for MegaTraveller, I <BR>
included a recovery vehicle, and figured that it would pick up the disabled<BR>
vehicle as a sling load.  You wouldn't do combat zone recovery--you'd have to<BR>
wait until the battle was somewhere else.  I'd have to check, but I may or may<BR>
not have given it enough surplus lift capacity to lift another recovery vehicle--<BR>
I seem to recall that the spec requirement of being able to carry any other vehicle<BR>
in the unit made it larger than most of the tanks and other fighting craft.<BR>
<BR>
Rob Dean<BR>
(living fossil)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 14:11:27 +0000<BR>
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at><BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-violence groups in 3I<BR>
<BR>
> > >Does anyone have any firm anti-violence groups active in their <BR>
> > >Traveller universe? What d they do? How does the Imperium <BR>
> > >see them?<BR>
 <BR>
> > Scenario: The group has just been in their first fire-fight in an<BR>
> > urban area, possibly destroing some building, cars and such. A <BR>
> > local interstellar anti-violence group starts stalking the group <BR>
> > while in the local main making demonstrations outside their <BR>
> > hotel, getting in the way of their job, and making their lives <BR>
> > high media profile (not in a good way :-)<BR>
> <BR>
> Now that certainly has some possibilites...<BR>
> <BR>
> Even if they had the purest of motives, an counter attack by the bad <BR>
> guys would be blamed on them. Strongly. <g><BR>
> <BR>
> Even more interesting would be the bad guys using the harrasment <BR>
> as cover for their attack. <BR>
<BR>
Even better: hint to the PCs that killing innocent bystanders is <BR>
severely frowned upon in the world, then have the pacifist throw <BR>
themselves between the two groups between the fight, to stop the <BR>
bullets <grin>.<BR>
<BR>
Carlos Alos-Ferrer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 20:13:02 -0800<BR>
From: Rob Dean <rsdean@erols.com><BR>
Subject: 2300AD?<BR>
<BR>
I've been gradually stripping my roleplaying game collection down to games<BR>
I might actually play in the future.  My children are now approaching the <BR>
prime age for games, so that's not as far off as it used to seem. (-:  <BR>
<BR>
I like some aspects of 2300, but I can't really see playing it.  Is there <BR>
anyone on this list that might like to buy a complete collection (2300AD,<BR>
all supplements including the one from 3W, Star Cruiser)?<BR>
<BR>
If 2300 is no longer considered to be on topic for the TML, please forgive me. <BR>
<BR>
Rob Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 08:59:09 -0500<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Starlost<BR>
<BR>
Richard Hough writes:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>Ellison was in a huge argument with a "professional"<BR>
>(non-sci-fi) writer who thought a "backup computer" was<BR>
>something that made the spaceship fly in reverse.<BR>
<BR>
	Does that mean that we are going to need hydroponics<BR>
	for the power plant?<BR>
<BR>
<dodge><BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:52:25 -0600<BR>
From: "Robert Eaglestone" <eaglesto@nortelnetworks.com><BR>
Subject: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
<BR>
Howdy folks, time for a question.<BR>
<BR>
Suppose you want to give your players the creeps?  Send<BR>
shivers up their spine?  Worry the PCs to no end?<BR>
<BR>
How do you set it up?  What factors do you have to think<BR>
about?  Likely it is some version of the Enigma, with some<BR>
of The Push in it, right?  But vague categories don't help me<BR>
very much.  I'm asking for inspiration.<BR>
<BR>
Government cover-ups; megacorps crossing the line into<BR>
dark experiments; medicines that create horrors; rumors<BR>
and uncertainty about the Ancients and the Solomani<BR>
Hypothesis; the Imperial Department of War... how does<BR>
one fit things like these together into a coherent scenario<BR>
that starts innocuously and turns into a monster of a situation?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks!<BR>
<BR>
Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 06:55:53 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Cultures<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 11:09 AM -0500 11/10/99, <BR>
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.imagiconline.com (Traveller-diges wrote:<BR>
>>  >         Anyone remember the cheesy sci-fi about the humans on the Arc?<BR>
>><BR>
>>Earthship Ark.  Had an actor that was later Chekov (SP?) didn't it?<BR>
><BR>
> The Starlost, an extremely low-budget Canadian sci-fi TV series which <BR>
> came out in 1973, after Star Trek. Walter Koenig was in several <BR>
> episodes.<BR>
><BR>
> I can understand why you thought it came out before Star Trek; the <BR>
> effects were so primitive it looks like something made by a <BR>
> high-school drama class.<BR>
><BR>
> This program was the result of some hard work by eastern Canadian <BR>
> sci-fi fans, who got Harlan Ellison to write the pilot and Douglas <BR>
> Trumbull to produce it. Unfortunately, the budget could not meet <BR>
> Ellison's vision for the series and he disavowed it. He even demanded <BR>
> they change his name in the credits to "Cordwainer Bird".<BR>
<BR>
A standard Ellison response when his scripts get *really* screwed over.<BR>
He "gives them the Bird". Many SF writers who work with TV and movie<BR>
scripts have a registered psuedonym for such cases. I believe that<BR>
David Gerrold's is "Noah Ward" (No Award:-).<BR>
<BR>
> I remember reading an essay from someone involved with the series. <BR>
> The budget constraints and clueless management were so extreme it was <BR>
> funny. Ellison was in a huge argument with a "professional" <BR>
> (non-sci-fi) writer who thought a "backup computer" was something <BR>
> that made the spaceship fly in reverse.<BR>
<BR>
There were other howlers. Things like saying the domes were only three<BR>
miles across. Harlan pointed out that if they were only three miles<BR>
across, then the people looking for Our Hero in the pilot episode<BR>
merely have to link hands and walk from one side to the other to locate<BR>
him. They told him the special effects people can't make it look more<BR>
than 3 miles across. So he tells them, fine, let them do their best but<BR>
you can still *say* it's 30 miles across! They went with 3.<BR>
<BR>
Also, the original idea was for the kids to be trying to find the<BR>
Bridge. Which could take a long time in a ship that size. <BR>
<BR>
Instead, the producers had them find the bridge in the *pilot*,<BR>
discover it wasn't working and then having search for the emergency<BR>
bridge. <BR>
<BR>
Beside the fact that there's no good reason to have them find the<BR>
bridge so soon, there's the "minor" detail that if *anyplace* on the<BR>
ship would have directions to the backup bridge, it'd be the primary<BR>
bridge! <BR>
<BR>
There was a book published "Phoenix without Ashes" that has the<BR>
original script plus Harlan's account of the trials and tribulations of<BR>
trying to get it filmed. It's worth reading. <BR>
<BR>
But in essence, most of the problems came down to the usual. Media<BR>
people just not understanding that SF is *not* fantasy. That things<BR>
have to have an internal logic *and follow that logic!*<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:14:59 -0800<BR>
From: "Elfman" <elfman@pacificnet.net><BR>
Subject: RE: elfman@pacificnet.net<BR>
<BR>
Thank you<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Michel<BR>
Vaillancourt<BR>
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 1999 12:06<BR>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
Subject: elfman@pacificnet.net<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
At 06:27 PM 11/9/1999 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
>I don't know if word 2000 will open it, but I am willing to try it.<BR>
Anything<BR>
>would be cool since I have a whole campaign to create from scratch and I<BR>
was<BR>
>going to use my computer to generate and create most of the characters and<BR>
>maps. I could do it my self (lack of personal time right now) here are so<BR>
>many people on this list.<BR>
><BR>
>Best Regards,<BR>
>William<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
        Hi, William!<BR>
        Check my website (URL below) for a Classic Traveller character gen<BR>
program...  it'll help you out.<BR>
<BR>
        --Michel<BR>
<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca<BR>
				ICQ # 31172292<BR>
	"Reality Error in Progress....<BR>
			....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:<BR>
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/cp2020"<BR>
	Into Traveller?  Check Out:<BR>
		"http://www.atlantic-online.ns.ca/traveller"<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
	***REMEMBER - Always virus-check your emails ***<BR>
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:20:03<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Anti-violence groups in 3I<BR>
<BR>
At 02:11 PM 11/11/1999 +0000, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Even better: hint to the PCs that killing innocent bystanders is <BR>
>severely frowned upon in the world, then have the pacifist throw <BR>
>themselves between the two groups between the fight, to stop the <BR>
>bullets <grin>.<BR>
<BR>
That might not work.<BR>
<BR>
A few years ago, demonstrators were protested the shipment of arms to<BR>
Central American from the Concord (Ca) Naval Weapons Depot.  One of the<BR>
protestors sat on the tracks.  As the train approached at 35 mph.  They got<BR>
it on video.<BR>
<BR>
After the guy got out of the hospital, the public mood was "what kind of<BR>
idiot sits in front of a moving train?"  That act didn't do anything to<BR>
stop the shipments.<BR>
<BR>
Your protestor might be seen as a martyr, but most sane people realize that<BR>
running in front of a squad involved in a firefight is a dumb thing, and<BR>
will react accordingly.<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, Wardn/Lunion is inhabited by pacifists.  If they don't like you, they<BR>
just hold a sit down strike.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.<BR>
gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
TravGeekCode: <BR>
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i<BR>
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da<BR>
         <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:22:12<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Cultures<BR>
<BR>
At 11:38 PM 11/10/1999 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>Earthship Ark.  Had an actor that was later Chekov (SP?) didn't it?<BR>
<BR>
If Earthship Ark and Red Dwarf had a fight, who would win?  :)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:27:20<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: re: Sixth Frontier War!<BR>
<BR>
At 10:47 AM 11/11/1999 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
>Dear Folks -<BR>
><BR>
>Walt posed:<BR>
>>To the "benevolent Zhodani" camp: are the Zho's warm and understanding<BR>
>>psychotherapists to their loving proles, and evil mind-rapers to outsiders?<BR>
><BR>
>Just another question for the 3257th Philosophy Battalion (the "Descartes<BR>
>Demons") to ponder, eh Doug?<BR>
<BR>
SIR! YES SIR!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 09:41:00 -0600<BR>
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Evolution (was ...and the drifting generation ship)<BR>
<BR>
lol...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net> said:<BR>
><BR>
> >So if I made this ship the size of a small moon I should have no problems.<BR>
><BR>
> I have a very bad feeling about this.<BR>
><BR>
> Graeme<BR>
> _______________________________________________<BR>
> If at first you don't succeed, DON'T try Russian Roulette.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
- -------------------------<BR>
"How much XP do we get if we join the bandits?"<BR>
<BR>
shimmer@mhtc.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 07:17:22 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Wed, 10 Nov 1999, Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> >From: Robert Conley <estar@toolcity.net><BR>
>> >Subject: Re: Recovering disabled grav vehicles<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> >Why do we need a separate vechile. Why can't we have a control module, and<BR>
>> >a series of standard grav lift modules of which are self powered.<BR>
>> >that you attach to the disabled vechile. The whole thing is controlled by<BR>
>> <BR>
>>   Is it just me, or isn't the issue of attaching these pods going to be<BR>
>> non-trivial, and potentially pretty damned exciting with all the power<BR>
>> cables running to the control module/crew cabin?<BR>
>> <BR>
><BR>
> No the modules are self-powered and the control is wireless. The<BR>
> performance wouldn't be as good as direct fiber optics but we are only<BR>
> talking about limping back to a repair center.<BR>
<BR>
Wireless control on a battlefield is *not* a good idea. And it's not as<BR>
if using wires to connect the modules to the ARV is going to be *that*<BR>
much of a pain.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 1999 08:41:07 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: (OT) IN TIME FOR REMEMBRANCE......<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 11 Nov 1999, Terry Mixon wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Does anyone have any firm anti-violence groups active in their <BR>
> Traveller universe? What d they do? How does the Imperium <BR>
> see them?<BR>
> <BR>
I haven't run a Traveller game set in my non-canon SF universe in ages,<BR>
but there are such groups active in it; they do much the same sort of<BR>
stuff they do in the here and now.<BR>
<BR>
Some of them are descended from groups active today.  <BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1336<BR>
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